Ladies: Are bike shops *still* failing us?
I can’t tell you how many emails I receive from women who want advice on how to buy a bike. Many of them are intimidated, frustrated or even scared. They feel that they don’t know what to say or ask. That they’re spoken down to.
They have no idea where to start – they just know that they want to ride bikes.
They know they’re smart enough, savvy enough, strong enough and brave enough. They just aren’t sure what all that techno-mumble-jumble crap that is coming out of the salesperson’s mouth means. But they’re pretty sure they’re being had.
Are they? Are we?
Everyday more and more women are climbing onto bicycles. It’s our time. We’re here and we’re ready to ride. Are bike shops ready for us? What’s your experience? Do you have ideas on how bike shops can be better?
Do you have a story to share?
Let it rip.
I’ve been contacted over the past few months by several large companies (a shop included) to help them figure out how to better serve us. I’m excited, energized and enthusiastic about it – and I have commitments from them that they will be willing to take risks, trust me, and do what it takes to truly make a shift-change.
What do they need to hear?
Today I’m asking specifically about bike shops but I promise later to also address the question of the larger industry. We’re making strides, to be sure, but we’ve got a long way to go.
Take a moment, if you will, and leave me a comment. Tell me about your bike shop experiences – good and bad. What’s working? What’s not? What can retailers do to make it easier and more comfortable to shop in their stores?
I appreciate your input. And – if you don’t feel comfortable sharing with the public here (I encourage you to do so, the dialogue will be interesting) – feel free to use the contact form to send me a note directly.
Whole lotta grit,
Heidi
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Sadly, bike shops continue to fail women- on the whole. Lack of selection in bikes and apparel. Some local shops in SoCal including InCycle have a fairly good representation, however, women will likely have to travel to many shops in order to find what they are looking for and may encounter less than enthusiastic or knowledgeable salespersons. Thankfully the manufacturers have filled some of the gaps with demo trucks traveling the country to provide test rides.
Apparel is difficult, and buyers are often not users. Many shops eschew the smaller boutique brands (SheBeest, Sheila Moon) that cater well to women for the more mass market apparel which tends to not fit well or is not made with the best materials.
Many shops will only test the waters with apparel and equipment, and fail because they did not do a whole hearted effort, and blame the consumer for not wanting what they have to offer. Proper planning, good purchasing, broad selection, well laid out shop and more would do shops good. Women love to shop and spend money… so what’s the issue? How many hours do we spend inside shops in a given year? Why not bike shops?
Not a lot different for guys!!
I’m a man and I’m intimidated by shops. I have little idea what I’m talking about and don’t know what questions to ask. I have no idea when I’m being told bullshit.
Luckily there’s a big bike culture at work and I can ask on our intranet for recommendations on things. Even then, I mostly have to ask what I feel are totally naïve questions, especially when something is said for which I have no idea what the significance is (eg. fork rake – I know what it is, but why it’s important I have no idea).
One local bike shop tried to talk me out of my desire for an internal gear hub (based on co-worker recommendations) because of FUD around it needing to be “repaired all the time.” And this was from a female store manager that is a friend of my wife. I’m very glad I did not listen to her. I love my commuter with IGH.
I think part of the problem is that there’s little resource for the neophyte to figure out what’s what for things like frame geometry. I totally don’t understand it (what’s a “trail”?) and haven’t seen a easily understood digest of it anywhere.
I don’t see this as a sexually specific problem.
I think any person new to cycling is intimated, and I have a feeling more women are willing to show their ignorance then men (the classic ‘ask for directions’ scenario). So that combined with the bad attitude of many shop workers creates a bad atmosphere for many women.
I will say though it seems like I’ve had stellar service at most of the shops I’ve been to in Portland–but only since I’ve been racing… Interesting.
My issues are more with the industry as a whole. But I think shops could do a much better job as well.
When I was first shopping for a road bike, I went to many shops in Portland and never once got fit. I am 5’4″ and have been put 52s and 54s just because they were on sale or the sales guy liked them. Instead of fitting a bike to me, I was fit to the bikes. Brakes were too far away, but there was no option to put on different shifters. Bars too wide, but to change them it would cost more. And the male sales staff couldn’t really recommend saddles.
I also greatly dislike the fact that when I go into a shop w/o spandex on I get talked down to when I ask questions or need a part. Just because I am a girl, doesn’t mean I don’t know my bike stuffs.
I took a friend bike shopping in Eugene when she was getting into touring. The shop she went to replaced shifters, bars, and even tossed in pink fenders and bar tape. They made sure the bike fit her. They also laid out all the options when she was shopping, he spend the time to discuss the differences in a simple, but non condescending manner.
I think you’re right about people new to cycling. I’m guess I’m also curious (which wasn’t necessarily clear in the way I posed the question) about those who aren’t new to cycling. I feel like I have a good experience in most Portland shops as well, but I’m not sure everyone does. There are a ton of recreational female cyclists out there who ride on a regular basis but might not love having to go into a bike shop to get something fixed or pick something up.
I am a new cyclist, having just bought my first bike last summer. I had no preconceived expectations before going to my local bike shop, although I did take a male friend who was an avid cyclist. My experience was very good – the guys that helped me were very friendly and helpful and didn’t make me feel dumb or unwelcome. The shop I went to didn’t carry apparel but they had bike helmets that I thought were somewhat fashionable (I care about how I look even when cycling) and they had accessories that were definitely more feminine-looking than masculine.
(The shop I am referring to is Curbside Cycles in Toronto, Canada).
The challenge in the question you pose is that not all women are alike – I think there may be more of a distinction between novice and advanced cyclist than gender. By making novices feel comfortable, bike shops are creating long term relationships that are good for their shop and their sport as a whole.
My local bike shop has done me wrong in the past. When I bought my road bike I brought up concerns about the fit. The guy told me sure we can fix that. Needless to say, it is a problem that will only be solved by buying a new set of shifters. I was really upset when I found out how much the solution would cost and that there was no way to be sure that it would solve the problem before the shifters were special ordered.
I worked part time in a bike shop for a while, so I know a good amount about equipment, repair, etc- and still, if I walk into most bike shops in NYC with my boyfriend (in or out of spandex), I feel invisible- they assume he knows what he’s talking about, but dismiss most of my questions (even though really, he knows far less about bikes than i do, and will gladly admit it, he’s cool like that).
I think part of it, as with many sports, is that girls have different issues than guys, and some things aren’t easy- making sure a stranger knows not to wear underwear under their new $80 shorts is awkward, and we’re shaped so differently from most guys, I’d like to think many of them just don’t know what to do with us, and it comes off as dismissive. I certainly wasn’t the most knowledgeable person in the shop I worked in (I was the least!), but just having a woman in there smiling and asking if they had any questions, if they were new to cycling, definitely increased our sales to women.
As for what shops can do- understanding that women might not jump in completely as fast as some guys do helps- if someone wants to wear tennis shoes with her new road bike, that’s fine for now- explain why and when different pedals might be better, and make sure to let them know that if they have any questions or want to upgrade, you’re happy to help. Don’t insist on tightening the clipless pedals so they’re hard to use at first- just show her (or him) how to do it on their own when they’re ready. Even bikes that are fit perfectly feel weird to a new rider, so taking the time to explain why things are like they are helps a lot. A repeat customer who tells everyone how nice your shop is is better than one who drops a lot of $ once and never looks back.
Semi-tangent: I also think we have to take more responsibility- my dad believed no one should ever operate a vehicle they can’t do basic repairs on, so before I could drive, I had to know how to check my oil and change tires and an air filter. He didn’t know anything about bikes, but I believe the same is true- if you’re going to make that investment, take some time to learn about the sport and the equipment. I was given a great old book- Mountain Biking for Women- that, while not fully comprehensive (especially because i started on a road bike), gave me a good idea of what I needed to know and learn more about. A lot of bike shops hold Maintenance 101 classes- they’re well worth the time! There are also organizations like Recycle-A-Bicycle, that welcome volunteers and teach them skills- never underestimate the value of organized events and riding groups, even if you just go a couple of times, they can really help with confidence.
I’ve had both wonderful and terrible experiences at shops.
There are two times that stick out in my head when I have walked in to shops and been talked to like a five year old. I was just a young girl who couldn’t possibly know anything about bikes, right? ;) Neither of those shops got my business after that. Fortunately I had already been riding for several years at that point so I knew that not ALL shops were like that. I was already hooked and that treatment wasn’t going to turn me off from the sport BUT what DID make me incredibly sad was to think what someone who was just getting up the courage to give this cycling thing a try would have thought and how they would have reacted. I fear that the way those guys treated me would have been enough to turn the newbie rider away for good.
I am very lucky to have found a shop here in Boulder that I love. They DON’T talk down to me but they are also very patient when I don’t understand something. They have also gone out of their way to find find me bikes that fit me and haven’t just tried to stick me on whatever they happen to have in stock. I couldn’t be happier with the service I have gotten there – which is probably why I have purchased three bikes from them in the past year. ;) Not all shops are bad but sometimes its hard to find the good ones.
I don’t think its just shops that are failing women but also the companies that make equipment, clothing, etc. I had a hell of a time finding cross bike small enough to fit me, and at 5’3″ I’m not even THAT short. I understand that there are problems with toe overlap and whatnot with tiny cx bikes … but still. There should be more options for smaller people, most of which happen to be women.
One of the best women bike friendly shops I have found is Cyclemania in Portland, Maine.
Dave, Eddie and staff “get it”. They really take time with all customers, male and female, to find what the customer is looking for. They’ve even been known to loan you a bike for a day or two to really try it out. This practice, I believe creates many sales. There aren’t many shops that will let you take a bike out for the day on your favorite cycling route to run it through it’s paces. Most only let you ride it around the parking lot. You can’t get a feel for a bike by doing that.
Recently Cyclemania has chosen to start, and support, a women’s bike team/club as a spin off of the other club they support. In the few months it has started we have 35+ members and growing. Even though many have not joined, there are women who are very interested and will ride as part of the women only weekly ride next summer.
From women’s specific bikes, apparel, equipment and maintenance classes, Cyclemania recognizes that there is a growing group of women cyclists to assist. These women are interested in group rides, racing at various disciplines, including triathlons, and charity events. I believe they are very forward thinking and are doing all they can to accommodate them.
And if you don’t believe me, go check them out for yourself!
Hire more women to work at the shops. I was overwhelmed by the condescending treatment I got by men at bike shops. Then I finally found a woman working at a co-op who didn’t talk down to me, set me up with a bike, told me what things are called, and taught me how to change the tire.
Dudes are cool. But lets even the playing field a little
I don’t think “jen” above fully described her two bad experiences well and humorously enough…
The first that stands out, a popular bike shop in a liberal college town in Kansas (won’t be hard to figure that one out) – a young triathlete at the time, Jen couldn’t get brand new 650cc tires on her rims. She took them in for help and was more than willing to pay for it, the guy literally looked at her as if to say ” [sigh] little girl, can’t you girls do anything… here let me do it in 2 seconds… ” [tries to put mount it on the rim] [still trying] [still....trying] .. ” hmmm well.. uhh…” Yeah that’s what i thought tough guy….
The second, a big brand name shop had just opened in Kansas City. Jen walks in shopping around for a hardtail MTB fully willing to be dropping just under $2k for something nice. Total hipster sales dude strutting around the shop with his messenger bag on (before admittedly i knew what hipsters were in cycling), listens to about 3 words, takes a bike down basically shoves it at her and walks away. This time, i’m not exatergating. AT ALL. Needless to say neither shop has ever had a rig in our stable.
Her good experiences as she noted above have been amazingly helpful and successful for her AND the shop (note the THREE bikes in the last 12 months part). Lesson to be learned from this guys perspective: just simply take the time to listen to them, without judging, and being as helpful as possible. Really that should apply to _all_ customers. A guy posted above it’s not much better for guys – at times, yeah that’s true too..
Regardless of what someone thinks of newbs, it can never hurt to have more women in the sport!
I concur with those who suggest throwing our spending power behind those who treat us well.
Some article I read referred to “shrink it and pink it . . .” as how the bike industry responds generally to women.
Lemme tell you, I never looked good in pink, and I think I am about Levi Leipheimer’s size . . .
I have had great and not so great experiences. It has always been on a very individual level . . .
Kudos to the bike wrench who showed me how to change a tire . . .
Thumbs down to the wrench who I paid to change my tire only to have the tube blow up as soon as I put the wheel in the car.
I have purchased bikes from the shops who have listened to me or paid attention to my size (I don’t need 42 handlbars . . . I do appreciate swapping out six different saddles as I test road the bike I eventually bought after four and half hours at the shop.)
I buy clothing from the outfits that make Women-specific sizing. (The local bike club does not offer women sized jerseys . . .I was told that we (women) prefer the bigger pockets available on men’s jerseys. I rebutted that a) pocket size disparities are minimal, but men’s jerseys are too broad in the shoulders and too narrow in the hips . . . for the $$, I want a women’s specific jersey.
I like seeing more women working in the shop and I appreciate their input re experience with products (e.g. saddles.)
Spring 2009 I was searching for a new bike in Portland. Looking for my first carbon, price range $3500- $4000. Based on reviews I wanted to test ride a Giant, can’t recall the exact model but the Advanced Avail model line. The guy at Bike ‘n Hike said they couldn’t order one just for me to ride, but, hey, I could ride this much lower-end version, it’s basically the same thing. Why would they think I would want to test ride a lower end model and then plunk down a lot of cash (non-refundable) for a higher end model. I’m no bike geek, but I sure as hell knew those two bikes wouldn’t ride the same. If they rode the same, why the heck would I pay for the more expensive one? Do salespeople at bike shops think all customers are dumb, or just women?
I’m lucky, I live in a place with a large cycling population so the people in the shops have been excellent and take the time to answer questions and help you make an informed choice.
My problem is finding decent clothes. I can find lots of stuff for road cycling, not so much for mountain biking… Right now most of my freeride clothes are men’s since that’s all the shops around here carry. I have curves… Need I say more? After asking a couple of shops about the lack of women’s clothes I’ve discovered they will special order things for me, but not all women know they can do that and some don’t want the hassle.
And for the shop owners who say the women’s clothing doesn’t sell, if you advertise it, they will come… Trust me on that one!
ps
I have
-Owned a bike shop
-worked as a wrench and/or salesperson in shops across the Nation
-worked for Cannondale
-raced pro mountain bikes for 5 years
-started a women’s mtb company and team
-write for mbaction.com
-teach women’s clinics and private lesson
etc etc etc. Been in the industry for nearing 20 years. I “left” the industry because of the lack of capability of the industry as a whole to get it. I am back again, doing my small part and have been received well with open arms, yet the most valuable service that I offer is Personal Shopping, and the state of the IBD is why I even can do such a thing!
My local shop has a woman working there who is super knowledgable and has beenhelpful to my wife. They also have a womens version of the club jersey. Their bike selection is definitely lacking however.
Here are my stories:
Many years ago (early 90′s) I spent about six months shopping for my perfect commuter bike. The biggest thing I remember other than a lot of confusion from reading too many bike mags with fancy part listings, is telling shop guys I wanted grip-shifts and the near universal derision I received, followed by lectures on why that was a bad choice. They forgot, I suppose, that they weren’t going to be the ones shifting the thing. Finally I found a shop that not only didn’t question my decision, but offered to change out the shifters on the bike I was looking at to my preferred choice and a few other modifications, for no extra cost. Could be related to why they went out of business shortly after that, but it was a great buying experience.
When that bike was stolen, I went to replace it with as near an identical model as I could find. By then, everything had been ‘upgraded’ to disc brakes, something I didn’t want or need for the style of riding I would be doing. Again, I called 4 or 5 different shops in Portland, who told me I was crazy, until I got to Corey at Seven Corners, who did everything I wanted, gave me a discount because v-brakes were cheaper and thankfully, is still in business today. I have since bought three other bikes from him, including two custom built Surlys (Cross Check and Big Dummy).
For non-condescending advice and support, you can’t do any better than the fine fellows at Seven Corners.
My experience with River City is a little hit or miss. They know me well there by now, but I have still had a guy tell me, as I stood next to a Cannondale MTB I had recently purchased, that it was too big for me.
“No it isn’t” I replied.
“Yes, it is.”
“No it isn’t.”
I couldn’t believe he was being such an ass. As soon as I sat on the bike, he realized that the seat height was deceiving (I’m not that tall, but I’m mostly leg apparently) and retracted his statement. If I was a less experienced, less confident rider, I might have thrown my whole purchase into question and ended up with something too small.
Last but not least, I lead a River City women’s ride last year in which one of the participants was a very new rider who had just dropped over $1600 on a new bike, hoping to train for a triathlon. Her handling skills were sketchy at best, and by a few miles into the ride, every other women there realized that part of her problem was that the frame was too large for her (and told her so).
Fortunately the bike was still returnable, but it was a male RC employee who had supposedly fit her and told her that a 54″ frame would be a good fit. Disappointing.
I agree with posters who have said that this is probably more a newbie vs experienced cyclist problem, but the questions are still worth asking. In commuting, it is often stated that women are the ‘indicator species’ for safe bikeways. I think the same could be true of effective bike shops. If women can get good service overall, then mostly likely everyone is getting good service.
I will end here, before I drift off into the topic of women’s cycling gear and clothing and start a serious rant…
This is such a complicated question. I agree that women aren’t always treated well in bike shops…and I could say the same is true at car dealerships, etc. I’ve been fit badly for a bike (my first) in a reputable LBS (they put me on a WSD even though I’m not actually built like a “girl”), and I’ve been treated like a queen in an LBS that I was warned off of. I think we have a responsibility to each other to hold the stores and industry responsible for meeting our needs.
My rambling thoughts on the subject:
Being the obsessive researcher that I am, I have found the internet to be a great leveler of the playing field so to speak. 3 years ago, I shopped extensively for the right commuter (I think I hit every bike shop in town at the time). I couldn’t find what I wanted (steel, drop bars, fender/rack ready) off the shelf, so I went the build it up route. Got a tip on the right frame from a local bike shop, researched, researched, researched, then went back to that shop with spec list in hand to have it built. The guy I worked with was great. He did question a couple of my choices, but in a respectful way. I think I took his advice on one and held my ground on the rest. To this day, I love that bike the most.
I don’t go into shops much, not because I’m initimidated, but because they often don’t have what I want. I get most of my clothes at TeamEstrogen.com (which is a local company for me). I get all my maintenance from a bike savvy friend. When I need parts, I either research and specify what I need at my local shop or buy whatever my mechanic tells me to buy (depending on what it is). And I buy my bikes on ebay or craigslist.
Are bike shops failing women? No more than the industry in general. Women’s participation in cross is growing at a much faster pace than men, but I don’t see more women’s CX bikes coming out. Part of the reason I buy bikes on craigslist/ebay is that I can’t find what I want off the shelf, so I’m always having to build up the frames (or really, my mechanic is). How hard is it to put 38 bars and 165 cranks on a 47cm bike? And, yes, I’m willing to pay for DA or Red. Please have bikes available at that level.
When I was first getting into cycling and would go into a bike shop with my boyfriend, I noticed the staff would mostly talk to him. Even though I was asking the questions, they would look at my boyfriend when they answered. This has happened at several shops.
One shop was kind enough to order me an extra small WS model and would return it at no charge if I didn’t like it. It turned out I loved the bike. This shop has later gone on to start a women’s ride, and has put together some women’s training classes. This is the shop I like to give my business to.
I have also gone into a shop where a staff member was sure I could ride a 54 cm cross bike, he seemed shocked when I told him I rode a 42 cm road bike with 650 wheels.
When I began venturing into bike shops it felt the same as when I first started going into motorcycle shops. The staff treated me the same, like I was just there because of my boyfriend/husband and that I wasn’t a ‘real’ customer. When I was looking at buying my first Harley I stopped letting my boyfriend come with me because staff would talk to him and not me. Similar situation that Sabrina (another poster) relayed.
I think until staffers at bicycle shops begin to view women as ‘real’ customers things will not change. I have had some good experiences along with the bad and I think women need to use the power of their money as their voice. I used to live in a town with 4 shops and worked where there were 3 within walking distance of my job. Between those 7 shops only 2 of them would I spend my money at, 1 near home (where the best mechanic was) and the other near work (where I could pick up items not carried at the other shop). I have moved to a new city and have begun my search for a new bike shop/mechanic. The strategies I use when evaluating a shop/mechanic are simple: 1) I wear pants, staffers seem to always check your legs to see if you’re a real cyclist. 2) I have a couple questions ready that I already know the answer to just to see if they’re going to BS or talk down to me. 3) I never bring in my prized road bike first. I usually bring in my run around town clunker. If they can not give quality care to my lower end bike I do not want them any where near my road bikes. I want a mechanic who cares about giving me quality bike maintenance whether the bike is a lower end Gary Fisher or a high end Cervélo. I have asked a few people I know here in my new town about the local shops. Both guys gave me the name of the same shop, but let us see if this shop will give me as good of customer service as they give professional male cyclists.
Here’s my take on Heidi’s post.. failing yep.
Men are such intuitive know it alls why? Oh yeah their egos inflate more than they should! The gal who walks in to possibly buy a bike has been researching, they’re better at it than us. A visit here, chat with whom, onto hear his take on what women specific is. I think each shop all over the US can do a better job providing women with undivided attention, enthusiasm, knowledge to make their cycling experience fabulous. In the last few yr while the markets taken a crap, women are our future & are vital for continuous growth in this industry. So mr criterium racer- salesman it’s okay to talk even sell your $900 bike if the service is great u just earned a customer for life.
Pff macho
B. Davis
Great posts here! Sorta relevant to the topic is how intimidating getting into racing can be. Specifically CX in Colorado, there is pretty much only Womens 4′s and Open. A few races this year ONLY had Open. It’s hard to grow a sport at all when that’s your introduction to racing.
I have a really long upper body – not only do I look funny sitting on a short top tube bike but it actually hurts my lower back – like crazy. I think it’s awesome bikes come in different geometries / sizes… but somtimes they don’t fit me and I’m tired of bike shops telling me they do… I also have a seat that is VERY comfortable on my bike, it is not a “ladies” specific model. I am again thrilled that seats come in different widths and lengths HOWEVER since the Selle Italia SLR is comfortable (for whatever reason) I’m going to stick with it…. why would I go through saddle pain b/c a bike shop employee says i should ride a womens specific saddle? I’d ride any seat, no matter what it’s designation/color/country of origin, that is comfortable. Thank you to the bike industry for the wide range of choices, including colors, of bikes/shoes/saddles/handlebars. Bike Shops – perhaps you might want to look or ask before you assume, I know you are busy and underpaid and I’m sorry but that’s a different issue.
Great conversation! It’s a question we have been seriously grappling with since expanding into bikes in our own kayak/bike IBD.
I agree with many of you, that service is service regardless of gender. Floor staff should be evaluating each individual for needs, size, wants, etc. (regardless of gender) and KNOW both their product AND their competition. Our base kayak customer has been women, over 60 years old, so our staff has become proficient in knowing that women often know what they want. Now, we need to translate this into the bike side.
Here are a few issues from an IBD perspective:
1) Not alot to choose from. Women specific clothing, bikes, etc. make up about 10% of the industry. Industry issue. We all need to make noise about this.
2) Women like to have things that fit well, but they also like to be unique. Guys don’t care if everyone has the same jacket they have. Girls do. This presents a costly ordering dilemma. As we try to order a jacket, let’s say
and that jacket comes in three different colors, we have to rub a crystal ball and figure out what color and what size the ONE woman who wants THIS jacket will be. Then, we are stuck with sizes and colors of stock where we got it wrong. (And no, we can’t just return them.) If we order too few, the display looks anemic and maybe doesn’t attract the woman. If we order too many, we lose money on most of the inventory.
When more men come through the door on a daily basis, it’s a hard sell to the management.
Full disclosure: I am a woman and want very cute and well-made cycling clothes. I “get it” from the female perspective but am also challenged from the buying side.
In our store, we are happy to special order but like someone else said, not everyone knows that is an option (and many shops hate special orders). We do our best to let our customers know.
I will follow this thread with great interest. Definitely a necessary conversation.
I totally understand from the shop’s point of view, getting stuck with a lot of unsold clothing (I actually got most of my bike wardrobe at cost buying up previous season’s stuff from the small chain I worked at, because women just weren’t buying it). One thing that shop did was to have a couple of representative items, and then catalogs of the women’s clothing/accessories, and make an order a couple of times a year – they’d tell women’s riding groups, we’d tell women coming in the store, and that way, people could get what they wanted (they had to pre-pay), the shop offered a discount (the small loss on the mark-up was well worth the repeat business), and it worked out for everyone- little or no excess inventory, but women were still able to get access to the products they wanted, and while they could have just ordered everything online, it created a nice camaraderie, and the women would come there first when they needed a new bike for their kids or other cycling gear. Even women who didn’t end up ever ordering anything liked that they could and that it was a friendly environment.
This is a fantastic conversation. When I started riding in college, I had the help of my older teammates (male and female) to give me the basics on what cycling was all about. I’d still walk into the local shops, completely intimidated, and just wander around looking at everything, always acting like I knew what I was doing in there. I got a lot of questioning looks and condescending attitudes. I, like many of the women referenced in these comments, took to the internet. If it weren’t for Sheldon Brown, I don’t think I ever would have purchased my first bike.
Now, years later, unless I roll into a bike shop with a carbon frame in tow, I still get the same treatment from most male bike shop staff. I walk in in a shop with my boyfriend, a runner, and they talk to him and not me. It’s infuriating and frustrating and insulting and quite sad, all at once. I want to get more of my friends into the sport, but I feel there is a dearth of resources and a definite “boys’ club” feel to the whole scene.
I only had to work one summer in retail to understand stock issues and stop faulting bike shops for carrying limited womens’ clothing lines.
What I fault them for is knowing nothing about the women-specific product they do stock. One shop in town has a wall of womens’ saddles, but no knowledge of the differences among them.
So what have I done? I order all product online. I research major purchasing decisions on my own and only go to a shop when I need serious work done on the bike. I have come to accept it, though it disappoints me that the sense of community fostered by cyclists often seems restricted to the privileged few.
For example, I am also a private pilot. Walk into any pilot shop, and no matter how old you are, what gender or race, you are an immediate, welcome member of the family. Anyone who loves airplanes is embraced, whether they fly them or not. Wouldn’t it be nice if cyclists could do that with each other?
This is a bit of a tangent, but I’m a bit disappointed that Loren Mooney, editor of Bicycling Magazine, doesn’t have more of a presence standing up for women cyclists. I don’t think she needs to go on a feminist tirade by any means, but it might be nice if she advocated for more women in cycling – whether commuting, on local teams or working in the industry – in a neutral fashion.
Yes, the shops are failing many of their customers and potential customers, especially women.
Now, I don’t know a lot about the sports side of things (racing or mountain biking). I use my bicycle to go places. And I’ve discovered the American cycling market really doesn’t get this. Everything seems to be standardized in size (mostly aimed at men) and targeted toward some niche market – racing, fixies, etc. Lots of high-tech stuff that doesn’t even fit me. I buy hats and gloves in children’s sizes!
I have finally resorted to riding vintage bikes off Craigslist and ordering accessories from Europe. But many bicycle shops don’t know how to install or fix them. They do seem willing to try, though. I’m good with mechanical stuff, so I don’t have much trouble explaining what I need. But, there are not a lot of shops; I have to go across town to buy a brake cable. Maybe one thing we need is a bike part section in the local grocery store?
A lot of women I know say the biggest issue is carrying stuff. They need to carry their kids, shopping bags, briefcase, you name it. The American bicycle industry definitely has not caught on to this yet. You have to spend a fortune to just to get a chain case.
The shops that are succeeding at catering to women and men (none around here) are doing very well although struggling for appropriate merchandise; hopefully women can use our pocketbooks to put the lousy shops out of business and support the good ones – if they exist!
But on a positive note, we have women in charge of the local advocacy group and the local bike repair cooperative…
I live in Spain and I’m very fortunate that I managed to become friends with the owner of one LBS (and his wife…who he met through a cycling club.) Admittedly, he’s probably got one of the smallest shops in Madrid, but I know that I can go in there with a list of ideas and needs and have a decent conversation with both of them, and come out with something that will work really well, even if it’s not necessarily what I had in mind when I went in. I’ve spent nearly €4000 in bikes there in the past two years, and never hesitate to recommend the shop to anyone within earshot – especially women.
Compare this with two of the other big bike retailers in Madrid, one of which is supposedly run by a woman, and the other, who inherited the business, along with several of her brothers. Provided you can even get served without having to say something like, “I know I’m a woman, but could I please get some assistance?” (no, not making that up), you then have to deal with being looked down on and treated like Cindy-Lou Who.
If it weren’t for the relationship with my LBS, I’d buy online. And I have told other retailers that. I don’t really care if they get their noses out of joint: Why should I subsidize substandard treatment, poor product choice and a lack of options when I can get what I’m looking for with no hassle, no backtalk and without being patronized?
I am new to cycling. My boyfriend bought me a bike for my birthday in July 2009 and it was then my quest for clothing and upgrades began.
There are limited company’s that make clothing and many shops only carry 2 to 3 brands. So I become limited by choice and travel from place to place seeking brands and sizes. Once I know what fits I can ask about special orders at shops. Locally The Bike Zoo has accommodated me and they have one female on staff who I will seek out if she is working.
I believe it is basic salesmanship, you ask questions and accommodate the buyers needs but many bike shops don’t employ true sales people. Many cross over from repairing a bike and try to sell me something.
Another poster mentioned women research before coming in, this is true for me. My worst experience was when I was ready for pedal clips, I researched shoes decided what I wanted. The owner of the store tried to put me in a man’s shoe first then tried to sell me the shoe I wanted but it was the Susan Komen hot pink breast cancer version. Sorry, not what I wanted – I insisted he order the shoe I wanted which he did finally. When I go there I will not be helped by him ever again, and I say so.
Bottom line if bike shops want a piece of the female dollar they need to learn how to earn it and it would start with less telling and more listening and asking. Manufacturer’s should also realize we don’t just wear pastels and hot pink we like all colors.
I kind of agree that this phenomenon maybe has more to do with the fact that the number of non-gearheads interested in riding bicycles is going way up in the U.S., especially in cities like Portland. Certainly, there is a gender element to it as well, but I don’t think it’s exclusively an issue between men and women.
In Portland, I would highly recommend Clever Cycles on SE Hawthorne and 9th. I’ve been going there for maintenance and have always found the staff friendly, engaging, willing and able to explain in great detail where I wanted them to, and very kind in fixing stupid maintenance goof-ups I have made (and then explaining kindly how I could avoid them in the future, what kind of tools I’d need, etc) over the course of learning the basics of taking care of my bikes :)
I feel they have always treated me as an intelligent and able person, even before they knew me, they have never acted condescendingly if I didn’t know something, and they have gone out of their way to explain to me how to do things myself which I could have been paying them to do.
There’s a very good bike shop near my house. It’s also a custom frame builder. They do beautiful work there.
If I want to go to a bike shop, though, I ride to one that’s 7 miles away, because the people there have never been condescending to me and are always helpful – unlike the people at the bike shop near my house. I had to name-drop my husband (who they made a bike for) in order to get good service there. Uh, not cool. Some of the employees there aren’t like that – but some are, and how do I know who’s going to be there on any given day?
I’m not going to get my bike fixed there, and I’m CERTAINLY not going to get my awesome custom ride from them. If they can’t take the time to listen to me about what I want for my beater, what are they going to do when they build something just for me? I’ll put in a scenic ride and go to the bike shop that I know is going to give me good service and where they know me.
In fact, it was the way that they interacted with me in the first place that made me look around for builders who cater to women… and that’s how I found http://www.sweetpeabikes.com.
@melinda You know Heidi is president of the Natalie/Sweetpea fan club right? :-)
She’s one cool chick. You gotta respect a woman who welds ride-able art for a living.
Indeed, I count the Ramsland’s among my closest friends. Natalie also doubles as my sometimes-running-buddy, frequent crisis counselor, occasional business brainstorming guru (big f’in props to Austin in this category also), and all around whole-grain muffin consultant.
This discussion is fantastic. I’m processing and will be back with more soon.
Are bike shops failing us?
Yup. Still.
Look, I’m an average size woman. But I don’t want to ride a man-sized bike– I’m the same height as my boyfriend, but my legs are longer than his and my torso shorter. I don’t want to wear pastels jerseys. I don’t want to wear pink. I don’t like being talked down to because I’m female.
I buy most of my cycling-specific clothing from Teamestrogen.com, also local for me. There are no shops local to me that carry the kind of selection they do; everything is literally pink, lavender, pale turquoise, light green, pale yellow… yuck. And the two closest shops have one rack of all the women’s clothing they carry and 7 racks of various mens’ jerseys, 4 racks of men’s shorts, a wall full of jackets and vests and yet more jerseys for men… Sigh.
I bought my road bike from a saleswoman at BG. None of the other shops I visited had any women on staff. All the male staff talked to my boyfriend about what I was looking for in a bike– and yeah, he knew what I was looking for because I did a lot of research and we discussed the options, but it would have been nice to have been included in the conversation!
Anyway. Women who are getting into riding bikes are looking for clothing, accessories, maintenance items– salespeople have GOT to learn how to treat customers equally, and not assume we femmes don’t know anything just because we’re female.
(BTW, the “shrink it and pink it” comment I heard directly from a salesman at one of my LBS as the reason why they don’t carry the same quantity of merchandise for women– because clothing makers “shrink it and pink it” and that’s all the variety there is out there.)
I am on the fence about this one. I think it’s more of a newbie/non-newbie issue. When I mention to LBS employees that I race, they DO pay more attention to me. The irony is that, despite racing for four years, I still know very little about bike mechanics. That’s why I pay the shop, right? That said, I do know when someone is full of BS and when someone is telling me the straight story. I don’t really get upset about it- I just stand my ground.
I don’t need a mechani-therapist. I need someone to fix my bike. And if they’re not going to ask me about my day, how my dog is or why I bonked in the last race, I don’t really care. I have limited time. I want them to fix my bike, so I can go home and ride it.
As for clothing, the only clothing I can afford to buy these days is my team kit and it’s Euro sizing, so it works for me. ;)
As for buying a bike, I buy bikes through my team, so I get spectacular service and fitting (thanks Joe!). I just bought a new road racing bike from Specialized and I am super impressed with the design, the colors, and the fit. Specialized seems to have gotten it right- it’s not pink, the geometry is perfect, and the bike is outfitted with the same level of components on the men’s version. No pink and shrink here.
Women like to talk. They like to have the person they’re talking to appreciate where they’re coming from. While I do think talking down to women is probably an issue in the bike industry (and you should know that my husband is often reluctant to ask questions at a bike shop for fear of looking stupid), women also need to recognize that it’s not a clothing boutique. It’s a bike shop that should, yes, serve all of their customers, but that also has an express purpose of getting everyone on a bike. No, they don’t need to care about your cat who had cancer and your ex-boyfriend who stole your last bike. They just want to sell you a bike.
I don’t understand where this whole “I’m intimidated” thing comes from. Did Title 9 not pass in the 1970′s? Did most of us not grow up in era during which we were told we could do anything, study anything, be anything? More women attend college than men. More women attend MEDICAL SCHOOL than men, for crying out loud. Oftentimes, I think we sell this attitude to ourselves and then buy in to it, hook, line, and sinker. It’s 2010. Go buy yourself a damn bike and then ride it. The end.
(and yes, I expect all kind of comments about my heartlessness and lack of sympathy.)
Ha! Small world!
NoPoGirl, I don’t go to my bike shop to chat, either. But when the people who work at the shop treat me like a person instead of like some strange idiot-creature from the moon, sometimes it happens anyway.
I’m not on a racing team. That doesn’t mean I should get crappy treatment at a bike shop. My money is just as green as yours.
I have full trust in my bike shop and am grateful for the relationship. I am not a big spender or a fast athlete. I have been going to CyclePath for years. There are two specific reasons that I love them. One, I don’t ever feel that they are trying to sell me something. In fact, regularly they have told me I don’t need that or a lesser valued product would be good. Two, when ever I have specific question about my bike, they are happy to bring me behind the counter and teach me b
(I realized that I got the URL wrong in my first comment – http://www.sweetpeabicycles.com )
I don’t want to completely derail this discussion into How Awesome Natalie/Sweetpea is (even though she totally is), but having women like her, and all of us here, around and doing things with bikes is a big part of the solution.
This reminds me so much of work. I work in the software industry, which may actually be more male-dominated than bicycling. If I were a better writer, I’d be able to come out with volumes about how I see the same lack of perceived credibility there too.
If I see another person who is more like me than not doing something, I’m much, much more likely to say “hey, I’ll bet I could do that too”. That goes for fixing a flat tire or making a computer game.
NoPoGirl, two things:
1) Like Melinda, I wonder what small talk has to do with the thrust of Heidi’s post/question, which is are we still getting crappy service from bike shops for lack of a penis?
2) “I don’t understand where this whole “I’m intimidated” thing comes from.”
I partially agree with you that jumping on the whining band-wagon isn’t necessarily the best way to foster change. But, your statements also imply a sense of entitlement that I find is much more common, the higher up in the pecking order you fall with regard to class, race, gender etc.
It’s really easy to have that sense of self worth when you’ve been raised to feel that way. I think it’s useful to try to empathize with folks who don’t have that same advantage, when trying to encourage them into the cycling fold.
Most of my sales are for women and children. They are for neighborhood rides and maybe some fitness. However, we sell the majority of our road bikes to men. The ladies come in, get information and will look for a cheaper bike on-line. I believe women are driven by price and do not always take the time to understand the value of a good bike. Signed -female store owner
As a male shop employee, I’d like to respond to a couple of the themes here and beg for guidance.
1) Bike Fit: Not all women need women’s specific bikes. Any bike fitter worth her/his salt should be able to tell you this and help you pick out a bike that will fit you well. If not, you’re in the wrong shop. Honestly, I wish manufacturers didn’t label bikes as women’s specific. Some men would be better served by “women’s specific” geometry, but there’s no convincing them to ride a “women’s” bike. The big dilemma here is whether you prefer a women’s section or if you want women’s bikes mixed in with the others on the floor.
2) Clothing: I’ll start by confessing that I am the purchaser for our shop and my women’s clothing orders are always wrong. I never have the right brand, color, size, or style. Two years ago, our shop decided to commit to women’s clothing and placed huge orders with Louis Garneau, Shebeest, and Prana. The response was discouraging. Very little sold and we got more negative comments that year than ever before or since. Lesson learned. We now bring in the basics and special order for women because stocking clothing just isn’t worth the risk. We’d love to sell more women’s clothing (this is a business after all), but we haven’t found a good way to do so. I’d be open to any criticisms/suggestions you have in this area because I’ll admit that I haven’t figured it out yet.
3) Male Shop Employees: This is all about proper training. All employees, regardless of gender, need to be knowledgeable about the products we sell or honest enough to refer customers to employees that do. This includes the women’s products. Every Spring, employees get a crash course in the women’s products and a reminder to act like adults when discussing shelf bras and chamois shapes. If the employee you’re talking to sounds like she/he isn’t knowledgeable, don’t be shy about asking for a more knowledgeable employee.
4) Small Talk: Guys won’t admit it, but they want this too. Unless I’m extremely busy, I do my best to chat with every customer. However, I do hear complaints about shop employees hitting on female riders, when the employee was just trying to sound interested, so keep in mind that we have to walk a fine line sometimes.
Finally, good shops aren’t so shortsighted as to ignore thoughtful advice from customers. If you think there is something your local shop can do better, kindly let them know.
Fantastic site and article!
I’ve had some bad experiences with bike shops, the worst being an independent shop in Nashville where the guy kept addressing my friend and I as “girls,” told us to stay on the sidewalk for our test ride, and advised me that I would embarrass myself if I tried to ride in my skirt. I’ve also had lots of fantastic experiences with bike shops. Now there are a select few shops I always go to, almost all partially woman-owned.
I JUST bought my first road bike after dying to get one since last July. I can tell you that the several shops I went to were a mixed bag. My first shop, which I was guided through the road bikes by a female, was pretty good with the details. She told me about the benefits of carbon, pedals, shoes, gears, etc. However, the bikes she showed me were so far out of my price range I left a bit discouraged. We’re talking 1,500 bikes for a grad student who had no job at the time. (We also complained about women’s pro racing and how lower category racers often get mixed in with elites due to a lack of races overall, but THAT’S another story.) I think she was helpful, but trying to also get me to buy a more expensive bike than what they had available. Boo.
The second and third shops I’ve stopped into didn’t really tell me much. Just told me how much bikes tend to run for and pointed at some bikes. No real explanations on parts. I tried online, but the only brands that seemed gender friendly with their design were Jamis and Terry — and those were ALSO somewhat out of my price range. I had no idea about other brands like Orbea,Van Dessel, etc.
But, then, I came down to a place called Carolina Bicycle in Charlotte, NC during an internship with a computrainer center. There is also Uptown Cycles, which Robin Farina (formerly of Cheerwine, ValueACT, now with VBF or something new) runs, which also seems to be very gender friendly. Carolina helped me get top notch bike shorts for a good deal, told me a little bit about gear, and then pointed out a Specialized female specific bike that was in my price range AND they explained its parts. The guys who work there are really awesome people, and explained why I’d need a female specific bicycle (I’m petite) and why I can get by with an aluminum/carbon mix. They even helped me out a little with shipping me bike up to MA, where I’m from. I finally got my bike and I can start riding! But honestly? I think this entire community embraces female riders in a way other communities may not, and that was reflected in the customer service of Carolina Bicycle.
I guess to sum this up: it depends on the community, whether the salesperson is a female herself, whether the salesperson even knows what they’re talking about in general and whether they allow their riding enthusiast self shine through that salesperson side. They all need work with female specific bikes. And to be honest? There aren’t enough brands really marketing those. At one point I was considering buying a used frame of a pro bike racer my size, even though the frame was 1,400, just because it actually fit me! I had no idea what I was doing.
When I got into cycling, I found, by accident, the perfect entry level shop. They catered to the hybrid/cruiser crowd and had a few lower end road bikes. But, they didn’t really handle fitting, particularly for a tall woman with a short torso.
Over time, I realized I had to go custom. I did my research and, unfortunately, the only shop for the dealer I was looking at had a quality control problem. Well, maybe that was in the past. So, I decided to drop in and “just chat”.
I walked in and said…I need to learn about XYZ bike (translated as I want to spend $7500 on a bike). The salesperson proceeded to show me a $1100 bike that he felt would work better and, I’m not kidding, the line “and it comes in pink”. The conversation went down hill from there–I hadn’t felt so patronized since I was 5.
I almost gave up, but learned of a custom frame maker. I went to talk to them and for the build they directed me to a bike shop I’d never heard of. While the owner is a hard-sale guy, the manager is fantastic.
I walk in with my husband and, if it is my bike we’re discussing, he talks *to me*. When I have questions, he takes the time to answer and will give me pros and cons.
So, where do bike shops fail? By assuming they know what the customer needs and not listening to them.
What can a shop do to satisfy the need? Listen to the customer. Realize that you’re not just there to sell, you are a teacher, too. Talk to the customer, not the entourage they brought along. Offer classes on bike repair. Keep the student to teacher ratio low.